Comments on: Obama to Republican Whiners: “I won” http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/ Things do not happen. Things are made to happen. - JFK Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:14:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: foundersfreedom http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-821 foundersfreedom Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:06:41 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-821 I will try to make time to see the articles/ reports you took the time to post. Please do not think that we're all about death and destruction. We know these are humans. We also know that some have information that could prevent more 9-11s, i.e KSM. Pres. Bush was accused of not connecting the dots, and, in some circles, was accused of being complicit in the attacks. He did what he thought had to be done, and really, none of us were there in the days and months following 9-11. He has been demonized like no other as if he were the Devil himself and that is unfair. Damned if you do, damned if you don't? I'm not going to be asking for his head on a plate as an armchair quarterback. 7 years of preventing more American deaths by a determined, brutal adversary has to speak for something. On the abortion thing, we'll have to leave it as a disagreement. There really is very little common ground. I'm not going to change your mind nor you mine. Have a good evening. ff <strong>Reply: FF you and I will have to disagree about Bush as well for I have no idea of anything in particular that he did that made us safer. In my opinion and from the many, many articles that I have read, he put us in greater danger nby starting that war in Iraq which was not based on the war on terror really. I apologize for initially misunderstanding you. There are an awful lot of trolls who come here just to sling mud, verbally abuse and spew. It has been a pleasure ff and you are always welcome here. </strong> I will try to make time to see the articles/ reports you took the time to post.

Please do not think that we’re all about death and destruction. We know these are humans. We also know that some have information that could prevent more 9-11s, i.e KSM.

Pres. Bush was accused of not connecting the dots, and, in some circles, was accused of being complicit in the attacks. He did what he thought had to be done, and really, none of us were there in the days and months following 9-11. He has been demonized like no other as if he were the Devil himself and that is unfair. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t?

I’m not going to be asking for his head on a plate as an armchair quarterback. 7 years of preventing more American deaths by a determined, brutal adversary has to speak for something.

On the abortion thing, we’ll have to leave it as a disagreement. There really is very little common ground. I’m not going to change your mind nor you mine.

Have a good evening.
ff

Reply: FF you and I will have to disagree about Bush as well for I have no idea of anything in particular that he did that made us safer. In my opinion and from the many, many articles that I have read, he put us in greater danger nby starting that war in Iraq which was not based on the war on terror really.

I apologize for initially misunderstanding you. There are an awful lot of trolls who come here just to sling mud, verbally abuse and spew. It has been a pleasure ff and you are always welcome here.

]]> By: Chimicles http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-815 Chimicles Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:49:31 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-815 Oh Mark delusional Mark. Keep dreaming that dream. 9/11 happened under George Bush's watch. The report was on his plate, he gave it back and said "You've covered your ass" and that was the end of it. he had a month to do something. Rome burned. Wright, I can understand him. African Americans have been so oppressed in this country, he expresses anger, but he is not violent. After all, the Bush regime targeted African American voting rights in 2003-2005 in Georgia, tried to suppress the vote elsewhere and gutted the Civil Rights division and had racists running the allegedly apolitical department of justice. Now who would be upset about that? Now as for the economy, Bush took a surplus and ran the country in the ground by spending like a lunatic. The loan process that you are talking about took place in the last three months of the Clinton Adminsitration so the effect of that legislation is squarely on Bush's watch. It was also greatly expanded under Bush with no regulations because Republicans can't live with regulations and the taxpayers are always having to pay for the consequences of their erroneous ideology, i.e., the savings and loan crisis. Le the Republicans maintain their views. Let then keep whining as Catherine said, but they could be so much more and actually do something to make this country work rather than just stick blindly to an ideology and be obstreporous and partisan. I think Bush owes us our retirement money back, but then he probably does have any money left because he ran the economy in the ground. He is the dirtiest president since Nixon. i hope Obama give that office a good scrubbing after the Bush and Cheney war profiteering, war crimes, multiple DOJ scandals, illegal wiretapping...I could go on but I do not want to hijack Catherine's blog. Goobye dear delusional fact-ignoring Mark. <strong>Reply: Snap! Great comment!</strong> Oh Mark delusional Mark. Keep dreaming that dream. 9/11 happened under George Bush’s watch. The report was on his plate, he gave it back and said “You’ve covered your ass” and that was the end of it. he had a month to do something. Rome burned.

Wright, I can understand him. African Americans have been so oppressed in this country, he expresses anger, but he is not violent. After all, the Bush regime targeted African American voting rights in 2003-2005 in Georgia, tried to suppress the vote elsewhere and gutted the Civil Rights division and had racists running the allegedly apolitical department of justice. Now who would be upset about that?

Now as for the economy, Bush took a surplus and ran the country in the ground by spending like a lunatic. The loan process that you are talking about took place in the last three months of the Clinton Adminsitration so the effect of that legislation is squarely on Bush’s watch. It was also greatly expanded under Bush with no regulations because Republicans can’t live with regulations and the taxpayers are always having to pay for the consequences of their erroneous ideology, i.e., the savings and loan crisis.

Le the Republicans maintain their views. Let then keep whining as Catherine said, but they could be so much more and actually do something to make this country work rather than just stick blindly to an ideology and be obstreporous and partisan.

I think Bush owes us our retirement money back, but then he probably does have any money left because he ran the economy in the ground.

He is the dirtiest president since Nixon. i hope Obama give that office a good scrubbing after the Bush and Cheney war profiteering, war crimes, multiple DOJ scandals, illegal wiretapping…I could go on but I do not want to hijack Catherine’s blog.

Goobye dear delusional fact-ignoring Mark.

Reply: Snap! Great comment!

]]> By: markelkinsblog http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-813 markelkinsblog Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:35:06 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-813 WOW! I didn't expect this much reaction to my comment. Just to set the record straight, I said if we can't have elected leaders do their job and legislate according to their mandate from the people that elected them , then we may as well have a king. And I do not listen to Rush. I was not referring to the media. I was referring to people like Jeremiah Wright who call everyone a racist if they hold a differing opinion. Or the female protester I saw in a photo holding up a sign that said "The Only Bush I Trust is My Own." Or the woman I met who wanted to shoot Sarah Palin in the kneecaps. In my local area, many left wing politicians use words like "extremist" or "violent" to refer to the opposition, even when the issue is only a school board seat! I am also referring to the twisting of facts, like blaming the economy on a President who inherited only a dot com bubble that was about to burst no matter who was elected next, and who was not the one to provide mortgages to "low income" people who could not pay them back. (Now which party would do that?) I won't mention the vulgar comments I have heard. Like it or not, Obama is my President. But the Republicans in office were also elected by people who expect them to maintain the views they held when elected. I also have to take issue with the fact that people forget it was under Clinton that terrorists got in to the position of power that brought about 9-11 and it was under President Bush that we were brought to the place that it did not happen again. As a nation we own him a debt gratitude at least for keeping American soil safe from another terrorist attack. We will see what the next four years holds now the Gitmo is being emptied. <strong>Reply: Mark, it was not all about you. Ditto Chimicles. </strong> WOW! I didn’t expect this much reaction to my comment. Just to set the record straight, I said if we can’t have elected leaders do their job and legislate according to their mandate from the people that elected them , then we may as well have a king. And I do not listen to Rush.

I was not referring to the media. I was referring to people like Jeremiah Wright who call everyone a racist if they hold a differing opinion. Or the female protester I saw in a photo holding up a sign that said “The Only Bush I Trust is My Own.” Or the woman I met who wanted to shoot Sarah Palin in the kneecaps. In my local area, many left wing politicians use words like “extremist” or “violent” to refer to the opposition, even when the issue is only a school board seat!

I am also referring to the twisting of facts, like blaming the economy on a President who inherited only a dot com bubble that was about to burst no matter who was elected next, and who was not the one to provide mortgages to “low income” people who could not pay them back. (Now which party would do that?)

I won’t mention the vulgar comments I have heard. Like it or not, Obama is my President. But the Republicans in office were also elected by people who expect them to maintain the views they held when elected.

I also have to take issue with the fact that people forget it was under Clinton that terrorists got in to the position of power that brought about 9-11 and it was under President Bush that we were brought to the place that it did not happen again. As a nation we own him a debt gratitude at least for keeping American soil safe from another terrorist attack. We will see what the next four years holds now the Gitmo is being emptied.

Reply: Mark, it was not all about you. Ditto Chimicles.

]]> By: foundersfreedom http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-793 foundersfreedom Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:28:56 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-793 Sidhe, I don't know for a fact that those things went on, so I'll give you the benfit of the doubt. I still don't think it is a systemic problem and certainly not Pres. Bush's directive. In life and death situations like that, men, even good ones, can do things that are out of character for them. I agree that most want babies, and by the way, we have multiple friends that have adopted minority babies, so this is not necesarily a race issue in my circle. This still is not a good enough reason to pull them from the womb piece by piece. <strong>Reply: It was a huge and systemic problem because it was ordered by Bush. Read the report, look at the pictures and read the article from the Air Force Special Ops soldier that I referred to below. You may want to rely less on Rush Founders, since he is not really interested in facts. There was no life or death situations. they were captive and completely at our mercy.</strong> <strong>It is a woman's right to choose.</strong> Sidhe, I don’t know for a fact that those things went on, so I’ll give you the benfit of the doubt. I still don’t think it is a systemic problem and certainly not Pres. Bush’s directive. In life and death situations like that, men, even good ones, can do things that are out of character for them.

I agree that most want babies, and by the way, we have multiple friends that have adopted minority babies, so this is not necesarily a race issue in my circle.

This still is not a good enough reason to pull them from the womb piece by piece.

Reply: It was a huge and systemic problem because it was ordered by Bush. Read the report, look at the pictures and read the article from the Air Force Special Ops soldier that I referred to below. You may want to rely less on Rush Founders, since he is not really interested in facts. There was no life or death situations. they were captive and completely at our mercy.

It is a woman’s right to choose.

]]> By: Sidhe http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-792 Sidhe Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:10:11 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-792 foundersfreedom, there are waiting lists of children waiting to be adopted (over 100,000 in this country alone)...I find it hard to believe that there are waiting lists of parents waiting to adopt with all these kids out there. Oh, I forgot, these children are not all perfect white infants, most are drug affected, have behavioral issues due to abuse, have special needs due to disability or are just plain too old (excuse my sarcasm but the whole people are waiting to adopt theme just makes me mad since there are so many children waiting for a home: http://www.adoptuskids.org/). Abu Ghraib - sodomy with a baton, being forced to masturbate in front of female guards, beating restrained prisoners, urinating on detainees, pouring acid on detainees, tying ropes to penises and pulling on them...these things are much more than embarrassment. foundersfreedom, there are waiting lists of children waiting to be adopted (over 100,000 in this country alone)…I find it hard to believe that there are waiting lists of parents waiting to adopt with all these kids out there.

Oh, I forgot, these children are not all perfect white infants, most are drug affected, have behavioral issues due to abuse, have special needs due to disability or are just plain too old (excuse my sarcasm but the whole people are waiting to adopt theme just makes me mad since there are so many children waiting for a home: http://www.adoptuskids.org/).

Abu Ghraib – sodomy with a baton, being forced to masturbate in front of female guards, beating restrained prisoners, urinating on detainees, pouring acid on detainees, tying ropes to penises and pulling on them…these things are much more than embarrassment.

]]> By: foundersfreedom http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-789 foundersfreedom Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:24:11 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-789 Skyewriter, what then is growing inside the mother? A tree, perhaps? Maybe a nice yellow VW convertible. No, it's human. Have a geneticist do some testing on it. The skin cells will come back as human skin cells, not blob of tissue who-knows-what-cells. The fingers that are on this object are human fingers and testing would bear me out on that. Same for the bones. I won't go on as it would be dull according to Catherine and it IS her site. As far as the doctor's punishment - how about manslaughter at least. The other question concerning rape, etc.; those of us on the pro-life side admit it is a tough one, but there are waiting lists of people who want to adopt. Why not spare the innocent life and fulfill potential adoptive parents' dreams? We both know those instances are but a small portion of abortions being performed. It is a convenience. Catherine and Skyewriter As far as the torture, waterboarding excepted, the tactics you have mentioned I have not seen published that they were taking place. I would whole-heartedly disagree with those. However, sleep deprivation (Gitmo) and embarassment (Abu Ghraib) hardly fall into those categories. I haven't studied the Geneva Convention. Common sense works for me. And as far as me standing up for the US Constitution - I certainly am. These barbarians are not citizens and have as their highest goal to DESTROY America and Israel. They fight among women and children, wear no uniform and their loyalty is to an ideology, not a country. They are not entitled to our constitutional rights. As Pres. Bush said, this is unlike any war this country has ever fought. <strong>Reply: Founders. The only thing that I said was boring was the same old tired discussion of how terrible it is of me to have a different opinion than the conservatives and how I need to listen to Rush Limbaugh to learn something. I am always happy to have a discussion, I just don't finder lectures very interesting. This discussion is a good example. First, I don't think Skye was suggesting that fetuses are alien creatures so of course you would be able to have evidence of the fetus being human. I think that you could test a person who had been murdered and be able to scrape skin cells from them or from under their nails. Does that mean the murdered person is alive? As for the rape issue, if you can have children and if you are ever raped, then you can choose to keep your baby. Do you have any idea how traumatic a rape is? Do you have any idea how horrific it would be for most women to be forced to have a child that was the result of a rape? Abortion is not a "convenience." I do not know any woman who looks upon having an abortion in that way. I have never had one and do not know what I would decide if it ever came to that, but i believe that every woman has the right to choose what to do with her own body. As for the torture, please see report describing the torture methods you say you disagree with <a href="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/12112008_detaineeabuse.pdf?sid=st20088121101970&s_pos=list" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Both Bush and Cheney have publicly admitted that they authorized torture, which under the law is a war crim that the US has prosecuted in the past. Please also see pictures <a href="http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/bush-in-fix-news-the-revisionist-legacy-tour-part-xvm/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. See also article from Special Ops / Air Force Counterintelligence agent who interrogated in Iraq and who says <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html?hpid+opinionsbox1" rel="nofollow">torture does not work</a>. You should try looking at the Geneva Convention. One of the "barbarians" that you are talking about is a guy who was in the Afghan government. When the Taliban ratted on him so that they could unseat him to gain power for themselves, they also stole his car. he was taken to Guantanamo and held for 6 years. they never had any evidence to convict him so they held him. he was finally released when the President of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, vouched for him and said he was no terrorist. In another instance, they accused an 11 year old kid who was poor and living in Saudi Arabia of being a part of a London cell, at 11 years of age and with no means to travel on his own. He was released too because there was no evidence to prosecute him either. He was likewise held for years. Please see story <a href="http://intelligence.typepad.com/intelligence/2009/01/courts-rule-detentions-at-guantanamo-improper.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. We are a nation of laws and the Rule of Law must always be maintained or we become no better than the terrorists. George Bush brought shame on this country and I am happy that he is gone and his policies are being stricken as quickly as possible. It was un-American to torture. There is no justification for torture. The experts say that it does not even work and I am talking about the soldiers who interrogate who have said that.</strong> Skyewriter, what then is growing inside the mother? A tree, perhaps? Maybe a nice yellow VW convertible. No, it’s human.

Have a geneticist do some testing on it. The skin cells will come back as human skin cells, not blob of tissue who-knows-what-cells. The fingers that are on this object are human fingers and testing would bear me out on that. Same for the bones. I won’t go on as it would be dull according to Catherine and it IS her site.

As far as the doctor’s punishment – how about manslaughter at least.

The other question concerning rape, etc.; those of us on the pro-life side admit it is a tough one, but there are waiting lists of people who want to adopt. Why not spare the innocent life and fulfill potential adoptive parents’ dreams?

We both know those instances are but a small portion of abortions being performed. It is a convenience.

Catherine and Skyewriter
As far as the torture, waterboarding excepted, the tactics you have mentioned I have not seen published that they were taking place. I would whole-heartedly disagree with those.

However, sleep deprivation (Gitmo) and embarassment (Abu Ghraib) hardly fall into those categories. I haven’t studied the Geneva Convention. Common sense works for me.

And as far as me standing up for the US Constitution – I certainly am. These barbarians are not citizens and have as their highest goal to DESTROY America and Israel. They fight among women and children, wear no uniform and their loyalty is to an ideology, not a country. They are not entitled to our constitutional rights.

As Pres. Bush said, this is unlike any war this country has ever fought.

Reply: Founders. The only thing that I said was boring was the same old tired discussion of how terrible it is of me to have a different opinion than the conservatives and how I need to listen to Rush Limbaugh to learn something. I am always happy to have a discussion, I just don’t finder lectures very interesting.

This discussion is a good example. First, I don’t think Skye was suggesting that fetuses are alien creatures so of course you would be able to have evidence of the fetus being human. I think that you could test a person who had been murdered and be able to scrape skin cells from them or from under their nails. Does that mean the murdered person is alive?

As for the rape issue, if you can have children and if you are ever raped, then you can choose to keep your baby. Do you have any idea how traumatic a rape is? Do you have any idea how horrific it would be for most women to be forced to have a child that was the result of a rape?

Abortion is not a “convenience.” I do not know any woman who looks upon having an abortion in that way. I have never had one and do not know what I would decide if it ever came to that, but i believe that every woman has the right to choose what to do with her own body.

As for the torture, please see report describing the torture methods you say you disagree with here. Both Bush and Cheney have publicly admitted that they authorized torture, which under the law is a war crim that the US has prosecuted in the past. Please also see pictures here. See also article from Special Ops / Air Force Counterintelligence agent who interrogated in Iraq and who says torture does not work.

You should try looking at the Geneva Convention.

One of the “barbarians” that you are talking about is a guy who was in the Afghan government. When the Taliban ratted on him so that they could unseat him to gain power for themselves, they also stole his car. he was taken to Guantanamo and held for 6 years. they never had any evidence to convict him so they held him. he was finally released when the President of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, vouched for him and said he was no terrorist. In another instance, they accused an 11 year old kid who was poor and living in Saudi Arabia of being a part of a London cell, at 11 years of age and with no means to travel on his own. He was released too because there was no evidence to prosecute him either. He was likewise held for years. Please see story here.

We are a nation of laws and the Rule of Law must always be maintained or we become no better than the terrorists. George Bush brought shame on this country and I am happy that he is gone and his policies are being stricken as quickly as possible. It was un-American to torture.

There is no justification for torture. The experts say that it does not even work and I am talking about the soldiers who interrogate who have said that.

]]> By: Mike http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-781 Mike Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:14:04 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-781 **Having a Doctorate doesn’t make one an elitist; it means they have an ADVANCED education and are likely more well-read (and have engaged in deeper debate with others of like education) than the average Joe or Jane. It's not that I'm dissing your doctorate... it's quite an accomplishment. But, if my rancher friend in Montana were to read that or my farmer friend in North Dakota were to read that it would only further cement there feelings about progressives. They may not have advanced degrees. But, their viewpoints on Obama, Bush, and America count every bit as much as those that roam the halls of higher education. I'll leave it at that and move on. BTW, thought I'd share a wordpress tip regarding the page link within the tabbed nav that contains the Google link. There are some really nice plug-ins made specifically for Analytics and Sitemaps. That would free up more space for page links should you need them. <strong>Reply: "They may not have advanced degrees. But, their viewpoints on Obama, Bush, and America count every bit as much as those that roam the halls of higher education." I mention a doctorate and you use the sad old tired phrase "liberal elitist." That sounds like a diss to me. What are the uneducated so afraid of anyway? What about having a doctorate would cement feelings about progressives? I find it interesting that whenever anyone mentions education it becomes so scary to some on the right. Then it becomes time to hurl names at us who have worked so hard for our degrees as if we could all be lumped together in that manner. But I'll say to you, even if I am an elitist, so what? Do i have to be mired up to my eyeballs in ignorance to be entitled to my opinion? Would only having a GED make me a better person? If I had dropped out of high school and never gone any farther with my education, I suppose on the farm and the ranch, I would be a good person and a regular gal. How ridiculous. Rejecting education only pulls this country back into the dark ages. Education is something that the rest of the civilized world holds in high esteem. I think most Americans do too perhaps excluding your ranch and farm friends, but not mine. No one said anyone's views don't count. You stopped by my blog by the way with not much to say. You came solely to criticize. I didn't seek you out. What was your valid point? What was your purpose in coming here? What was it that you wanted to accomplish? Yet you accuse me of being intolerant of other people's viewpoints. Look in the mirror.</strong> **Having a Doctorate doesn’t make one an elitist; it means they have an ADVANCED education and are likely more well-read (and have engaged in deeper debate with others of like education) than the average Joe or Jane.

It’s not that I’m dissing your doctorate… it’s quite an accomplishment. But, if my rancher friend in Montana were to read that or my farmer friend in North Dakota were to read that it would only further cement there feelings about progressives.

They may not have advanced degrees. But, their viewpoints on Obama, Bush, and America count every bit as much as those that roam the halls of higher education.

I’ll leave it at that and move on.

BTW, thought I’d share a wordpress tip regarding the page link within the tabbed nav that contains the Google link. There are some really nice plug-ins made specifically for Analytics and Sitemaps. That would free up more space for page links should you need them.

Reply: “They may not have advanced degrees. But, their viewpoints on Obama, Bush, and America count every bit as much as those that roam the halls of higher education.”

I mention a doctorate and you use the sad old tired phrase “liberal elitist.” That sounds like a diss to me. What are the uneducated so afraid of anyway? What about having a doctorate would cement feelings about progressives?

I find it interesting that whenever anyone mentions education it becomes so scary to some on the right. Then it becomes time to hurl names at us who have worked so hard for our degrees as if we could all be lumped together in that manner. But I’ll say to you, even if I am an elitist, so what? Do i have to be mired up to my eyeballs in ignorance to be entitled to my opinion? Would only having a GED make me a better person? If I had dropped out of high school and never gone any farther with my education, I suppose on the farm and the ranch, I would be a good person and a regular gal. How ridiculous. Rejecting education only pulls this country back into the dark ages. Education is something that the rest of the civilized world holds in high esteem. I think most Americans do too perhaps excluding your ranch and farm friends, but not mine.

No one said anyone’s views don’t count. You stopped by my blog by the way with not much to say. You came solely to criticize. I didn’t seek you out. What was your valid point? What was your purpose in coming here? What was it that you wanted to accomplish?

Yet you accuse me of being intolerant of other people’s viewpoints. Look in the mirror.

]]> By: skyewriter http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-776 skyewriter Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:42:56 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-776 PS: Someone isn't actually a person until their body is self-sustaining outside a mother's body. Check your own birth certificate; it isn't nine months earlier than the date printed on it, right? <strong>Reply: Snap! Very funny about the birth certificate.</strong> PS:
Someone isn’t actually a person until their body is self-sustaining outside a mother’s body.

Check your own birth certificate; it isn’t nine months earlier than the date printed on it, right?

Reply: Snap! Very funny about the birth certificate.

]]> By: skyewriter http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-775 skyewriter Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:41:20 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-775 In terms of torturing "potential" terrorists, we treat prisoners of war using tactics that violate the Geneva convention and we expect that our enemies will do the same? We detain them without due process or a fair trial? And you claim to be a champion for our constitution? "Do as they do" seems the likely outcome in a culture whose laws are based on the "eye for an eye" principle. I don't understand how people (this long into the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) can still be ignorant of how VERY different these cultures are from our own. In terms of torturing “potential” terrorists, we treat prisoners of war using tactics that violate the Geneva convention and we expect that our enemies will do the same? We detain them without due process or a fair trial? And you claim to be a champion for our constitution?

“Do as they do” seems the likely outcome in a culture whose laws are based on the “eye for an eye” principle.

I don’t understand how people (this long into the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) can still be ignorant of how VERY different these cultures are from our own.

]]> By: foundersfreedom http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-774 foundersfreedom Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:27:37 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-774 Skyewriter, I read the articles which I missed before. Torture has been seriously redefined. Sleep deprivation and loud music is hardly what was considered torture indays gone by. We're not in favor of these techniques that I won't call torture as a first defense. Abu Ghraib was made an issue for political gain by the Dems. Then their buddies at the World News Leader CNN ran with it. This got blown completely out of proportion by the likes of Kennedy and Murtha, et al. Underwear on their heads? stripping them of clothing? Give me a break. These people CUT OFF Peoples' HEADS on a daily basis. Why are you so intent to grant these people such such unwarranted mercy, yet are OK with the killing of an innocent unborn child? Their is a certain disconnect in that. <strong>Reply: Waterboarding. Electric shock. Dog attacks. This is not America.</strong> Skyewriter,
I read the articles which I missed before.

Torture has been seriously redefined. Sleep deprivation and loud music is hardly what was considered torture indays gone by.

We’re not in favor of these techniques that I won’t call torture as a first defense.

Abu Ghraib was made an issue for political gain by the Dems. Then their buddies at the World News Leader CNN ran with it. This got blown completely out of proportion by the likes of Kennedy and Murtha, et al.

Underwear on their heads? stripping them of clothing? Give me a break. These people CUT OFF Peoples’ HEADS on a daily basis.

Why are you so intent to grant these people such such unwarranted mercy, yet are OK with the killing of an innocent unborn child? Their is a certain disconnect in that.

Reply: Waterboarding. Electric shock. Dog attacks. This is not America.

]]> By: skyewriter http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-773 skyewriter Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:23:44 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-773 Having a Doctorate doesn't make one an elitist; it means they have an ADVANCED education and are likely more well-read (and have engaged in deeper debate with others of like education) than the average Joe or Jane. When people think smart people are "elite" (i.e., bad), then what we get is 8 years of George Bush and a Sarah Palin that will not go away. I'm four months from my Doctorate and you bet your ass I'm proud of the ward work and sacrifices I have made these past eight years (including MA). How many people do you know that have that kind of commitment and determination in their EDUCATION? So education is a bad thing then? @ Foundersfreedom: two questions: 1. What should the penalty be for the doctor? 2. What if the doctor was performing an abortion for an ectopic pregnancy? Or on a rape victim who gets pregnant? Or a pregnant 13 year old girl whose father is raping her? Having a Doctorate doesn’t make one an elitist; it means they have an ADVANCED education and are likely more well-read (and have engaged in deeper debate with others of like education) than the average Joe or Jane.

When people think smart people are “elite” (i.e., bad), then what we get is 8 years of George Bush and a Sarah Palin that will not go away.

I’m four months from my Doctorate and you bet your ass I’m proud of the ward work and sacrifices I have made these past eight years (including MA). How many people do you know that have that kind of commitment and determination in their EDUCATION? So education is a bad thing then?

@ Foundersfreedom: two questions:

1. What should the penalty be for the doctor?

2. What if the doctor was performing an abortion for an ectopic pregnancy? Or on a rape victim who gets pregnant? Or a pregnant 13 year old girl whose father is raping her?

]]> By: Mike http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-771 Mike Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:10:42 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-771 This is exactly what I mean. The liberal elitism is just freaking incredible. I state a viewpoint that doesn't fall lock-step with yours and you start throwing around your Doctorate degree. If you don't want dissenting opinions on your blog you can either make it private or just ban anyone who has a different opinion than yours. Spew? Apparently you've never read the most popular progressive blog, The Daily Kos. They make Rush look like an altar boy. <strong>Reply: I welcome debate on issues but to just come here and go off about liberal elitists is pretty sad, tired and really, really dull. Interesting opposition is always welcome. i have had some great debates with some people from Pakistan and India on my international blog. They can be tough because George Bush hasn't made us very popular out here, but that's ok it's a great debate. Have you seen what's written about liberals over the years? We aren't American, we're communists, we're socialists....I could go on and on. If you disagree with me, tell me what you specifically disagree with and we'll chat about it. If you just want to tell me how terrible I am because I have an opposing viewpoint and am a "liberla elitist," yawn, not interested. Oh, and sorry the Doctorate degree was so threatening. You can always get one yourself, if you can afford it after 8 years of Bush.</strong> This is exactly what I mean. The liberal elitism is just freaking incredible. I state a viewpoint that doesn’t fall lock-step with yours and you start throwing around your Doctorate degree.

If you don’t want dissenting opinions on your blog you can either make it private or just ban anyone who has a different opinion than yours.

Spew? Apparently you’ve never read the most popular progressive blog, The Daily Kos. They make Rush look like an altar boy.

Reply: I welcome debate on issues but to just come here and go off about liberal elitists is pretty sad, tired and really, really dull. Interesting opposition is always welcome. i have had some great debates with some people from Pakistan and India on my international blog. They can be tough because George Bush hasn’t made us very popular out here, but that’s ok it’s a great debate.

Have you seen what’s written about liberals over the years? We aren’t American, we’re communists, we’re socialists….I could go on and on.

If you disagree with me, tell me what you specifically disagree with and we’ll chat about it. If you just want to tell me how terrible I am because I have an opposing viewpoint and am a “liberla elitist,” yawn, not interested.

Oh, and sorry the Doctorate degree was so threatening. You can always get one yourself, if you can afford it after 8 years of Bush.

]]> By: foundersfreedom http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-770 foundersfreedom Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:05:30 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-770 Do you/ have you listened to Rush or do you get your information from kos, Huffpo or somewhere else? You obviously didn't read the Nazi, Bimbo, King George... statements or you would have plausibly corrected me. Let me know what Rush says that is personal, like these. I'm called stupid, ignorant, misinformed, revisionist and so many other things any time I make a statement based on fact and/or opinion. Other times (and I only make, maybe, 5-6 a week), I'm told to go away for same. What's with the closed-mindedness on the part of you progressives? We've always been told you're the ones that crave open and free expression. But I know, as does Rush and the other half of the country that didn't vote for Obama, that it only applies to those that think like you. Bring on the Fairness Doctrine! That really would go a long way to show everyone how open-minded and full of good will the progressives are. I'll continue to comment on my own blog and you can too. I don't restrict free speech and thoughtful debate. And since I'm not welcome here, I'll move along. I'm just a troll. Skyewriter, We meet again. You know I'm not an unreasonable person from my back and forth with willpen. The penalty should go to the doctor who performs the killing, obviously. ff <strong>Reply: Oh please. Stop whining and go listen to Rush Limbaugh then. When someone has something interesting to say, I listen. i have a ton of conservative friends and we have fantastic debates, but this stuff that you are leaving on my blog is just dull FF. It’s tired. Rush Limbaugh ugly quotes: On Feminism: “Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream.” Racist Quotes from the xenophobe: “I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.” “Okay Rush, slavery was not a good thing for the millions of African Americans who were enslaved, raped and beaten. The streets weren’t at all safe for African Americans. Slavery not a bad thing? Someone should put Rush on a plantation for him to see how great it is. Keep on fear and race mongering Rush, you might get to Goebels status.” “You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed.” “Martin Luther King is a national hero, not a black hero. Everybody in the United States celebrates his birthday, children are taught to look up to him as a hero in school. He’s earned the respect and admiration of the world and you believe the man who killed him was a hero? This is beyond racist. This is evil, mean spirited, subhuman. Praising the assassin of one of our great American heroes is beyond the scope of regular racism.” “Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?” “If you are unskilled and uneducated, your job is going south. Skilled workers, educated people are going to do fine ’cause those are the kinds of jobs Nafta is going to create. If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people, I’m serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work.” (wonder if he has ever noticed that all of the pictures of exposed asses resemble him?)</strong> Do you/ have you listened to Rush or do you get your information from kos, Huffpo or somewhere else? You obviously didn’t read the Nazi, Bimbo, King George… statements or you would have plausibly corrected me.

Let me know what Rush says that is personal, like these. I’m called stupid, ignorant, misinformed, revisionist and so many other things any time I make a statement based on fact and/or opinion.

Other times (and I only make, maybe, 5-6 a week), I’m told to go away for same.

What’s with the closed-mindedness on the part of you progressives? We’ve always been told you’re the ones that crave open and free expression. But I know, as does Rush and the other half of the country that didn’t vote for Obama, that it only applies to those that think like you.

Bring on the Fairness Doctrine! That really would go a long way to show everyone how open-minded and full of good will the progressives are.

I’ll continue to comment on my own blog and you can too. I don’t restrict free speech and thoughtful debate. And since I’m not welcome here, I’ll move along. I’m just a troll.

Skyewriter,
We meet again. You know I’m not an unreasonable person from my back and forth with willpen. The penalty should go to the doctor who performs the killing, obviously.

ff

Reply: Oh please. Stop whining and go listen to Rush Limbaugh then. When someone has something interesting to say, I listen. i have a ton of conservative friends and we have fantastic debates, but this stuff that you are leaving on my blog is just dull FF. It’s tired.

Rush Limbaugh ugly quotes:

On Feminism:
“Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream.”

Racist Quotes from the xenophobe:
“I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.”

“Okay Rush, slavery was not a good thing for the millions of African Americans who were enslaved, raped and beaten. The streets weren’t at all safe for African Americans. Slavery not a bad thing? Someone should put Rush on a plantation for him to see how great it is. Keep on fear and race mongering Rush, you might get to Goebels status.”

“You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed.”

“Martin Luther King is a national hero, not a black hero. Everybody in the United States celebrates his birthday, children are taught to look up to him as a hero in school. He’s earned the respect and admiration of the world and you believe the man who killed him was a hero? This is beyond racist. This is evil, mean spirited, subhuman. Praising the assassin of one of our great American heroes is beyond the scope of regular racism.”

“Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?”

“If you are unskilled and uneducated, your job is going south. Skilled workers, educated people are going to do fine ’cause those are the kinds of jobs Nafta is going to create. If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people, I’m serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work.”

(wonder if he has ever noticed that all of the pictures of exposed asses resemble him?)

]]> By: skyewriter http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-769 skyewriter Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:36:45 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-769 @Foundersfreedom: Read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html and this: http://rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/former-interrogator-slams-torture-torture-has-cost-nearly-as-many-lives-as-911/4955/ and last, a book by a former military interrogator who has first hand experience that torture DOES NOT WORK. The book is titled: So Wrong, for So Long: How The Press, The Pundits--and The President-- Failed What kind of human being are you? @Foundersfreedom:

Read this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html

and this:

http://rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/former-interrogator-slams-torture-torture-has-cost-nearly-as-many-lives-as-911/4955/

and last, a book by a former military interrogator who has first hand experience that torture DOES NOT WORK.

The book is titled: So Wrong, for So Long: How The Press, The Pundits–and The President– Failed

What kind of human being are you?

]]> By: Sidhe http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/01/24/obama-to-republican-whiners-i-won/#comment-768 Sidhe Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:33:13 +0000 http://cmacivor.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-768 Mark, you're right that they are supposed to represent us. But, we have long been forgotten in favor of PACs and special interest groups who have access to a lot more money than any one of us. If you think the Republican resistance to the proposed stimulus package has anything to do with what the people want you are surely mistaken. There's a compromise to be had here and once the elected politicians start caring about the people they represent they'll find it. Mark, you’re right that they are supposed to represent us. But, we have long been forgotten in favor of PACs and special interest groups who have access to a lot more money than any one of us. If you think the Republican resistance to the proposed stimulus package has anything to do with what the people want you are surely mistaken. There’s a compromise to be had here and once the elected politicians start caring about the people they represent they’ll find it.

]]>